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	<title>Comments on: Four Pillars: More on trust and confidence</title>
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	<link>http://confusedofcalcutta.com/2006/06/07/four-pillars-more-on-trust-and-confidence/</link>
	<description>a blog about information</description>
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		<title>By: Balaji Sowmyanarayanan</title>
		<link>http://confusedofcalcutta.com/2006/06/07/four-pillars-more-on-trust-and-confidence/comment-page-1/#comment-472</link>
		<dc:creator>Balaji Sowmyanarayanan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 Jun 2006 14:34:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://confusedofcalcutta.com/2006/06/07/four-pillars-more-on-trust-and-confidence/#comment-472</guid>
		<description>Are we transitioning towards a regime where anything and everything is tradable, speculatable, discountable?

A more livelihood affecting example than foodball, is the listing of Urad Dal( a key ingredient for making Papads) in Indian National Commodity and Derivative Exchange( NCDX). The speculative trade and the resultant hike in price threatened the survival of several grassroot Papad makers. 

( Note that Papads are not listed in the NCDX to get any speculative traction!)

Go on Confused! - We need more snowballs now, to avoid a flood of inadvertent brick bats latter.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Are we transitioning towards a regime where anything and everything is tradable, speculatable, discountable?</p>
<p>A more livelihood affecting example than foodball, is the listing of Urad Dal( a key ingredient for making Papads) in Indian National Commodity and Derivative Exchange( NCDX). The speculative trade and the resultant hike in price threatened the survival of several grassroot Papad makers. </p>
<p>( Note that Papads are not listed in the NCDX to get any speculative traction!)</p>
<p>Go on Confused! &#8211; We need more snowballs now, to avoid a flood of inadvertent brick bats latter.</p>
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		<title>By: JP</title>
		<link>http://confusedofcalcutta.com/2006/06/07/four-pillars-more-on-trust-and-confidence/comment-page-1/#comment-471</link>
		<dc:creator>JP</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 Jun 2006 14:26:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://confusedofcalcutta.com/2006/06/07/four-pillars-more-on-trust-and-confidence/#comment-471</guid>
		<description>Thank you, Coding the Markets, whoever you are. I&#039;ve followed the links and ordered the book.
I like the distinction between creditworthiness and trustworthiness that Harris draws, but I have a niggling feeling that some elements of the credit process need to change. 

One, as there is more disaggregation-with-empowerment, there will be more of a push away from any centralised creditworthiness models to more personalised ones. Even in wholesale financial markets. Traders could have portable trading limits which then work in conjunction with desk or enterprise limits.

Two, the tokens used to demonstrate the credit may themselves change, similar to what prepay and monthly SIMs  could do to credit cards.

New forms of &quot;acceptance houses&quot; may well emerge, every disruption creates its own amorphousness and consequent market opportunities, a re-mediation as it were.

But as you say, I&#039;m just mulling ove things. Blogging is provisional :-)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thank you, Coding the Markets, whoever you are. I&#8217;ve followed the links and ordered the book.<br />
I like the distinction between creditworthiness and trustworthiness that Harris draws, but I have a niggling feeling that some elements of the credit process need to change. </p>
<p>One, as there is more disaggregation-with-empowerment, there will be more of a push away from any centralised creditworthiness models to more personalised ones. Even in wholesale financial markets. Traders could have portable trading limits which then work in conjunction with desk or enterprise limits.</p>
<p>Two, the tokens used to demonstrate the credit may themselves change, similar to what prepay and monthly SIMs  could do to credit cards.</p>
<p>New forms of &#8220;acceptance houses&#8221; may well emerge, every disruption creates its own amorphousness and consequent market opportunities, a re-mediation as it were.</p>
<p>But as you say, I&#8217;m just mulling ove things. Blogging is provisional :-)</p>
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		<title>By: Coding the markets &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Trustworthiness &#38; creditworthiness</title>
		<link>http://confusedofcalcutta.com/2006/06/07/four-pillars-more-on-trust-and-confidence/comment-page-1/#comment-462</link>
		<dc:creator>Coding the markets &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Trustworthiness &#38; creditworthiness</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 Jun 2006 12:22:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://confusedofcalcutta.com/2006/06/07/four-pillars-more-on-trust-and-confidence/#comment-462</guid>
		<description>[...] Confused is mulling over trust and confidence. For me, Harris captures this distinction perfectly for financial markets. I quote&#8230; [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Confused is mulling over trust and confidence. For me, Harris captures this distinction perfectly for financial markets. I quote&#8230; [...]</p>
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		<title>By: JP</title>
		<link>http://confusedofcalcutta.com/2006/06/07/four-pillars-more-on-trust-and-confidence/comment-page-1/#comment-452</link>
		<dc:creator>JP</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 Jun 2006 09:54:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://confusedofcalcutta.com/2006/06/07/four-pillars-more-on-trust-and-confidence/#comment-452</guid>
		<description>Glad to see this snowball fragment....

The world appears to behave as if secondary markets are only good when they themselves are a zone of lock-in, where someone owns the secondary market as well. Often the owner of the secondary market also happens to be the owner of the primary market.

I can&#039;t see this continuing. Secondary markets are, if anything, even more susceptible to P2P approaches than primary markets.

There are a number of issues to solve before this can happen. One is that of transferability-with-adequate-new-identity-information. I think it&#039;s perfectly reasonable that airline tickets carry the real passenger name, for example, and not just for &quot;security&quot;. A second is that of enfranchisement, how one earns the right to primary market access. Frequent use. Ballot. Membership. Initial investment. Whatever. But once we have sensible rules to enfranchise primary market access, then there will always be some level of supply/demand market economics for the secondary market activities.

Akin to share registration and nominee accounts, yet learning from flight security and money laundering, there may well be models for generic &quot;instrument transfer&quot;. A sort of clearing house. And people will make money just enabling the transfer.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Glad to see this snowball fragment&#8230;.</p>
<p>The world appears to behave as if secondary markets are only good when they themselves are a zone of lock-in, where someone owns the secondary market as well. Often the owner of the secondary market also happens to be the owner of the primary market.</p>
<p>I can&#8217;t see this continuing. Secondary markets are, if anything, even more susceptible to P2P approaches than primary markets.</p>
<p>There are a number of issues to solve before this can happen. One is that of transferability-with-adequate-new-identity-information. I think it&#8217;s perfectly reasonable that airline tickets carry the real passenger name, for example, and not just for &#8220;security&#8221;. A second is that of enfranchisement, how one earns the right to primary market access. Frequent use. Ballot. Membership. Initial investment. Whatever. But once we have sensible rules to enfranchise primary market access, then there will always be some level of supply/demand market economics for the secondary market activities.</p>
<p>Akin to share registration and nominee accounts, yet learning from flight security and money laundering, there may well be models for generic &#8220;instrument transfer&#8221;. A sort of clearing house. And people will make money just enabling the transfer.</p>
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		<title>By: Ric</title>
		<link>http://confusedofcalcutta.com/2006/06/07/four-pillars-more-on-trust-and-confidence/comment-page-1/#comment-444</link>
		<dc:creator>Ric</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 Jun 2006 08:14:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://confusedofcalcutta.com/2006/06/07/four-pillars-more-on-trust-and-confidence/#comment-444</guid>
		<description>One of the things about not allowing secondary markets that licensors complain about (cf the DRM in music world) is that it &quot;steals&quot; sales from them. This is generally recognised as a furphy - preventing me from getting it for &quot;free&quot; does not equate to me going and paying full-price for something - I&#039;m willing to TRY something for free, but perhaps not prepared to take the chance at some expense. Shift to tickets - if there is a flourishing secondary market for (e.g.) airline tickets, then I will be MORE willing to purchase a ticket &#039;on spec&#039; if I know that I can get a reasonable amount of the value back when I change my mind. Now - where that slides into scalping is an interesting discussion in itself, but I don&#039;t understand why a secondary market is such a good idea for stocks and shares, and such a lousy one for airline tickets ...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>One of the things about not allowing secondary markets that licensors complain about (cf the DRM in music world) is that it &#8220;steals&#8221; sales from them. This is generally recognised as a furphy &#8211; preventing me from getting it for &#8220;free&#8221; does not equate to me going and paying full-price for something &#8211; I&#8217;m willing to TRY something for free, but perhaps not prepared to take the chance at some expense. Shift to tickets &#8211; if there is a flourishing secondary market for (e.g.) airline tickets, then I will be MORE willing to purchase a ticket &#8216;on spec&#8217; if I know that I can get a reasonable amount of the value back when I change my mind. Now &#8211; where that slides into scalping is an interesting discussion in itself, but I don&#8217;t understand why a secondary market is such a good idea for stocks and shares, and such a lousy one for airline tickets &#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Dominic Sayers</title>
		<link>http://confusedofcalcutta.com/2006/06/07/four-pillars-more-on-trust-and-confidence/comment-page-1/#comment-442</link>
		<dc:creator>Dominic Sayers</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 Jun 2006 08:13:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://confusedofcalcutta.com/2006/06/07/four-pillars-more-on-trust-and-confidence/#comment-442</guid>
		<description>...oh, and a serious point which may turn into a blog post.

The distribution of tickets for the football World Cup and next winter&#039;s Ashes in Australia has been criticised for not getting tickets into the hands of the &quot;real fan&quot; whoever that may be, World Cup tickets have largely been given to corporate sponsors. Ashes tickets were sold to the Australian Cricket Family several weeks before non-Australians could buy them,with the predictable result that none are left for anybody else.

Come the matches themselves, half the stadiums will somehow be full of England supporters who will have obtained their tickets in an unregulated secondary market, to the benefit of nobody except the lucky recipients of the original ticket IPO and the scalpers who intermediated between them and the wealthy England fan.

How can we create a primary and secondary market in tickets that does not disenfranchise the loyal but poor fan, and yet allows the market to distribute them according to real demand?

As you suggest, I suspect the answer is something to do with identity and traceability. If you have demonstrated your eligibility for a ticket in the initial distribution then you get one. If you then choose to use it for profit rather than entertainment then you go to the back of the queue for the next distribution.

Or is that too Victorian and moralistic?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8230;oh, and a serious point which may turn into a blog post.</p>
<p>The distribution of tickets for the football World Cup and next winter&#8217;s Ashes in Australia has been criticised for not getting tickets into the hands of the &#8220;real fan&#8221; whoever that may be, World Cup tickets have largely been given to corporate sponsors. Ashes tickets were sold to the Australian Cricket Family several weeks before non-Australians could buy them,with the predictable result that none are left for anybody else.</p>
<p>Come the matches themselves, half the stadiums will somehow be full of England supporters who will have obtained their tickets in an unregulated secondary market, to the benefit of nobody except the lucky recipients of the original ticket IPO and the scalpers who intermediated between them and the wealthy England fan.</p>
<p>How can we create a primary and secondary market in tickets that does not disenfranchise the loyal but poor fan, and yet allows the market to distribute them according to real demand?</p>
<p>As you suggest, I suspect the answer is something to do with identity and traceability. If you have demonstrated your eligibility for a ticket in the initial distribution then you get one. If you then choose to use it for profit rather than entertainment then you go to the back of the queue for the next distribution.</p>
<p>Or is that too Victorian and moralistic?</p>
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		<title>By: Dominic Sayers</title>
		<link>http://confusedofcalcutta.com/2006/06/07/four-pillars-more-on-trust-and-confidence/comment-page-1/#comment-441</link>
		<dc:creator>Dominic Sayers</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 Jun 2006 08:02:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://confusedofcalcutta.com/2006/06/07/four-pillars-more-on-trust-and-confidence/#comment-441</guid>
		<description>Nothing wrong with &quot;Colussuses&quot;, IMHO :-)

Comes a point when it&#039;s an English word. We don&#039;t talk about how many musea we have visited recently. Only pedants use data and agenda as plural nouns, and when people look at them strangely it is a demonstration that the language has moved on. As it is entitled to do.

I thought nice meant &quot;elegantly-crafted despite any inherent complexity&quot;, although why we would need a word for that is beyond me. Shows what was important to your Regency buck.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Nothing wrong with &#8220;Colussuses&#8221;, IMHO :-)</p>
<p>Comes a point when it&#8217;s an English word. We don&#8217;t talk about how many musea we have visited recently. Only pedants use data and agenda as plural nouns, and when people look at them strangely it is a demonstration that the language has moved on. As it is entitled to do.</p>
<p>I thought nice meant &#8220;elegantly-crafted despite any inherent complexity&#8221;, although why we would need a word for that is beyond me. Shows what was important to your Regency buck.</p>
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