Comments on: If you (re)build it they will come http://confusedofcalcutta.com/2006/08/04/if-you-rebuild-it-they-will-come/ a blog about information Mon, 06 Feb 2012 01:37:12 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: Long tails, short sight, big business, small wonders and “Trust” « quantum symbionts http://confusedofcalcutta.com/2006/08/04/if-you-rebuild-it-they-will-come/comment-page-1/#comment-645797 Long tails, short sight, big business, small wonders and “Trust” « quantum symbionts Sat, 04 Dec 2010 11:29:31 +0000 http://confusedofcalcutta.com/2006/08/04/if-you-rebuild-it-they-will-come/#comment-645797 [...] If you (re)build it they will come “… The “long tail” implies that the Internet is ushering in an age when micro-niches will dominate, at the expense of mass-culture monoliths. Sure, the Net makes it easier for us all to find the bizarre fetishes and tiny cliques that we are longing for. But one thing has always bugged me about this theory: How do you make a business out of that, unless you’re a big aggregator? I read that, and somewhere in my head a bulb fused. Or maybe it lit up. Pretty much every serious argument we’re having, every conversation we need to continue, is about some form of Big versus some form of Small. Blefuscu versus Lilliput. And we use concepts like expertise and authenticity and reliability and affordability and freedom and choice to try and win the arguments. And the concepts we use land up polarising the debates. Which made me think…. …. .It’s all about trust .” (for the whole argument do go to the original post) [...] [...] If you (re)build it they will come “… The “long tail” implies that the Internet is ushering in an age when micro-niches will dominate, at the expense of mass-culture monoliths. Sure, the Net makes it easier for us all to find the bizarre fetishes and tiny cliques that we are longing for. But one thing has always bugged me about this theory: How do you make a business out of that, unless you’re a big aggregator? I read that, and somewhere in my head a bulb fused. Or maybe it lit up. Pretty much every serious argument we’re having, every conversation we need to continue, is about some form of Big versus some form of Small. Blefuscu versus Lilliput. And we use concepts like expertise and authenticity and reliability and affordability and freedom and choice to try and win the arguments. And the concepts we use land up polarising the debates. Which made me think…. …. .It’s all about trust .” (for the whole argument do go to the original post) [...]

]]> By: Stan James http://confusedofcalcutta.com/2006/08/04/if-you-rebuild-it-they-will-come/comment-page-1/#comment-4963 Stan James Sat, 12 Aug 2006 16:32:17 +0000 http://confusedofcalcutta.com/2006/08/04/if-you-rebuild-it-they-will-come/#comment-4963 My company is building a product specifically to address the problem of trust. JP, I would love to have you in our beta test. Please send me an email if you'd like to participate. (And anyone else reading too...just give me a good excuse to put you in. :) ) My company is building a product specifically to address the problem of trust. JP, I would love to have you in our beta test. Please send me an email if you’d like to participate. (And anyone else reading too…just give me a good excuse to put you in. :) )

]]> By: Stan James http://confusedofcalcutta.com/2006/08/04/if-you-rebuild-it-they-will-come/comment-page-1/#comment-4961 Stan James Sat, 12 Aug 2006 16:28:11 +0000 http://confusedofcalcutta.com/2006/08/04/if-you-rebuild-it-they-will-come/#comment-4961 Excellent post and I concur. I've been thinking about trust a long time, but your paragraph about "Big this" and "Big that" hit the nail on the head big time. I also addressed this in my post 3 sources of trusted information:http://wanderingstan.com/2006-07-25/three_sources_of_trusted_information As I see it, right now we are forced into a choice beteen direct specific trust (as when you subscribe to one particular blog) and totally diffused aggregate trust (as when you look at the overall ratings of a book on amazon. In the real world, if you use your social network to fill in the in between gaps. This piece is missing from the online world. Excellent post and I concur. I’ve been thinking about trust a long time, but your paragraph about “Big this” and “Big that” hit the nail on the head big time.

I also addressed this in my post 3 sources of trusted information:http://wanderingstan.com/2006-07-25/three_sources_of_trusted_information

As I see it, right now we are forced into a choice beteen direct specific trust (as when you subscribe to one particular blog) and totally diffused aggregate trust (as when you look at the overall ratings of a book on amazon. In the real world, if you use your social network to fill in the in between gaps. This piece is missing from the online world.

]]> By: JP http://confusedofcalcutta.com/2006/08/04/if-you-rebuild-it-they-will-come/comment-page-1/#comment-4743 JP Wed, 09 Aug 2006 18:19:02 +0000 http://confusedofcalcutta.com/2006/08/04/if-you-rebuild-it-they-will-come/#comment-4743 This is in reply to Nic's point. I think we are moving towards the same place. In a strange way an open internet with open access reduces the capacity for corruption in capitalism. The portable trust point is something I am still pondering. Where networks were isolated islands, you could live schizophrenically in different ones in parallel. Now I think it is more about simple universal identity (along with its trust and behavioural attributes) across all networks, even ones you don't belong to. You define yourself by what you belong to; this definition is usable by things you don't belong to. Am I making sense? This is in reply to Nic’s point. I think we are moving towards the same place. In a strange way an open internet with open access reduces the capacity for corruption in capitalism.

The portable trust point is something I am still pondering. Where networks were isolated islands, you could live schizophrenically in different ones in parallel. Now I think it is more about simple universal identity (along with its trust and behavioural attributes) across all networks, even ones you don’t belong to. You define yourself by what you belong to; this definition is usable by things you don’t belong to. Am I making sense?

]]> By: Who’s doing it right? And what is “it?” at Beanstalk Talk http://confusedofcalcutta.com/2006/08/04/if-you-rebuild-it-they-will-come/comment-page-1/#comment-4740 Who’s doing it right? And what is “it?” at Beanstalk Talk Wed, 09 Aug 2006 17:53:21 +0000 http://confusedofcalcutta.com/2006/08/04/if-you-rebuild-it-they-will-come/#comment-4740 [...] Though it’s a little dispiriting that thoughtfulness, sincerity, passion — qualities easy enough to find in daily life — seem like genius when applied to marketing and business practices in general. Thankfully there’s a strong movement gathering behind that kind of mindset. At least it feels like a movement. Elements of respect for users (and employees) are explored daily at Creating Passionate Users, where I found this tasty little post about what makes the best tool for the job. (Check the comments too, for mentions of interesting work by cognitive scientist Don Norman.) Other bloggity folks distill it to trust. [...] [...] Though it’s a little dispiriting that thoughtfulness, sincerity, passion — qualities easy enough to find in daily life — seem like genius when applied to marketing and business practices in general. Thankfully there’s a strong movement gathering behind that kind of mindset. At least it feels like a movement. Elements of respect for users (and employees) are explored daily at Creating Passionate Users, where I found this tasty little post about what makes the best tool for the job. (Check the comments too, for mentions of interesting work by cognitive scientist Don Norman.) Other bloggity folks distill it to trust. [...]

]]> By: Advanced Technology Products Interactive » Blog Archive » Markets Without Marketing, http://confusedofcalcutta.com/2006/08/04/if-you-rebuild-it-they-will-come/comment-page-1/#comment-4607 Advanced Technology Products Interactive » Blog Archive » Markets Without Marketing, Tue, 08 Aug 2006 10:21:39 +0000 http://confusedofcalcutta.com/2006/08/04/if-you-rebuild-it-they-will-come/#comment-4607 [...] I came across this on JP Rangaswami blog. He wrote this post “If you (re)build it they will come” after reading all this. Share and Enjoy:These icons link to social bookmarking sites where readers can share and discover new web pages. [...] [...] I came across this on JP Rangaswami blog. He wrote this post “If you (re)build it they will come” after reading all this. Share and Enjoy:These icons link to social bookmarking sites where readers can share and discover new web pages. [...]

]]> By: Advanced Technology Products Interactive » Blog Archive » Markets Without Marketing, http://confusedofcalcutta.com/2006/08/04/if-you-rebuild-it-they-will-come/comment-page-1/#comment-4606 Advanced Technology Products Interactive » Blog Archive » Markets Without Marketing, Tue, 08 Aug 2006 10:12:51 +0000 http://confusedofcalcutta.com/2006/08/04/if-you-rebuild-it-they-will-come/#comment-4606 [...] I came this on JP Rangaswami blog. He wrote this post “If you (re)build it they will come” after reading all this. Share and Enjoy:These icons link to social bookmarking sites where readers can share and discover new web pages. [...] [...] I came this on JP Rangaswami blog. He wrote this post “If you (re)build it they will come” after reading all this. Share and Enjoy:These icons link to social bookmarking sites where readers can share and discover new web pages. [...]

]]> By: bladewing http://confusedofcalcutta.com/2006/08/04/if-you-rebuild-it-they-will-come/comment-page-1/#comment-4581 bladewing Tue, 08 Aug 2006 01:24:58 +0000 http://confusedofcalcutta.com/2006/08/04/if-you-rebuild-it-they-will-come/#comment-4581 [Could this be the end of Marxism as a philosophy? Internet communities eliminate alienation (and hence the inherent contradiction of capitalism) by giving people a way to find trust and meaning.] Certainly heading towards a post-capitalist reality where what you want and need are more closely aligned, also post marxist in the sense that it becomes possible to uncover solutions for every need that are organic instead of mandating a state structure, which has merged with the corporate anyhow for all practical purposes (isn't that the technical definition of fascism?) at any rate, self organizing groups are just about to realize their power in the real world. Evolution doesn't look like A /or/ B, it's more like C=A+B+?, but C would definitely survive without A or B. That's scary. It feel slike chaos. But we're already in the middle of this transition. People are speaking, sharing ideas and opinions. It is becoming a race to get to those without connections before the sweatshop does. The developing world has valuable insight into how to live a full and productive life with relative comfort and joy. As 'developed' nations see the truth of national policies and speak out individually, it becomes easier to aggregate their sentiments and the obvious question arises, "who's doing something about it?" it will be interesting to see the US public reaction when they discover, en masse, that it has been individuals and private activity working towards solutions battling mightily against the efforts of state sponsored manipulation. The web enables individuals to trust one another on an individual basis yet discover through that association large bodies of 'trustable' people comprising a group. It is no longer a matter of asking for trust, but getting back to your point about blogging, trusting yourself enough to put that out there honestly and wait for the bees to come to your honey. It is no wonder so many CEO's here are asking themselves serious questions like :You mean I have to be a *person* ? Can't we just hire a guy to say nice things? If I look weak (willing to change) nobody will respect me, right? Witness the rise of benevolent commerce. It is generational and not some result of cities vs farmers. Feudalism never wins in the long run and dies quickly in the face of information flow. ~ahem.. stepping down from soap box...~ [Could this be the end of Marxism as a philosophy? Internet communities eliminate alienation (and hence the inherent contradiction of capitalism) by giving people a way to find trust and meaning.]

Certainly heading towards a post-capitalist reality where what you want and need are more closely aligned, also post marxist in the sense that it becomes possible to uncover solutions for every need that are organic instead of mandating a state structure, which has merged with the corporate anyhow for all practical purposes (isn’t that the technical definition of fascism?) at any rate, self organizing groups are just about to realize their power in the real world. Evolution doesn’t look like A /or/ B, it’s more like C=A+B+?, but C would definitely survive without A or B. That’s scary. It feel slike chaos. But we’re already in the middle of this transition. People are speaking, sharing ideas and opinions. It is becoming a race to get to those without connections before the sweatshop does. The developing world has valuable insight into how to live a full and productive life with relative comfort and joy.

As ‘developed’ nations see the truth of national policies and speak out individually, it becomes easier to aggregate their sentiments and the obvious question arises, “who’s doing something about it?” it will be interesting to see the US public reaction when they discover, en masse, that it has been individuals and private activity working towards solutions battling mightily against the efforts of state sponsored manipulation.

The web enables individuals to trust one another on an individual basis yet discover through that association large bodies of ‘trustable’ people comprising a group. It is no longer a matter of asking for trust, but getting back to your point about blogging, trusting yourself enough to put that out there honestly and wait for the bees to come to your honey. It is no wonder so many CEO’s here are asking themselves serious questions like :You mean I have to be a *person* ? Can’t we just hire a guy to say nice things? If I look weak (willing to change) nobody will respect me, right? Witness the rise of benevolent commerce.

It is generational and not some result of cities vs farmers. Feudalism never wins in the long run and dies quickly in the face of information flow.

~ahem.. stepping down from soap box…~

]]> By: Deborah Schultz http://confusedofcalcutta.com/2006/08/04/if-you-rebuild-it-they-will-come/comment-page-1/#comment-4574 Deborah Schultz Mon, 07 Aug 2006 20:45:04 +0000 http://confusedofcalcutta.com/2006/08/04/if-you-rebuild-it-they-will-come/#comment-4574 <strong>The 10,000 question...Answered</strong> Andy started -- or rather restarted -- the great PR retainer debate. I have always had trouble with the PR model as it currently stands. In today's environment - why get second hand press coverage when you can get the The 10,000 question…Answered

Andy started — or rather restarted — the great PR retainer debate. I have always had trouble with the PR model as it currently stands. In today’s environment – why get second hand press coverage when you can get the

]]> By: Nic Brisbourne http://confusedofcalcutta.com/2006/08/04/if-you-rebuild-it-they-will-come/comment-page-1/#comment-4552 Nic Brisbourne Mon, 07 Aug 2006 10:17:41 +0000 http://confusedofcalcutta.com/2006/08/04/if-you-rebuild-it-they-will-come/#comment-4552 This is a fascinating step forward for the contract v covenant post you made on June 12th. At the risk of getting even more high level than my comment on that post I'm wondering if trust can be traced through history in the following way? Pre-industrial revolution - people lived in small communities, did the same thing as each other, (i.e. had common interests) and didn't move about - trust was prevalent as a result of these four factors Last 200 years - as you describe above everything got BIG and these four factors disappeared. Now and going forward - people use the internet to organise themselves into small communities of common interest which they might stay in for a long time. See where I'm going with this?? A couple of observations though: 1) Last time people were only in one community - this time they will be in many so some notion of reputation porting might be important 2) I am not a naive believer in PROGRESS but this has all come about because of increased choice. Whilst the disappearance of trust is a concern it is the flip side of some very positive developments. 3) Could this be the end of Marxism as a philosophy? Internet communities eliminate alienation (and hence the inherent contradiction of capitalism) by giving people a way to find trust and meaning. This is a fascinating step forward for the contract v covenant post you made on June 12th. At the risk of getting even more high level than my comment on that post I’m wondering if trust can be traced through history in the following way?

Pre-industrial revolution – people lived in small communities, did the same thing as each other, (i.e. had common interests) and didn’t move about – trust was prevalent as a result of these four factors

Last 200 years – as you describe above everything got BIG and these four factors disappeared.

Now and going forward – people use the internet to organise themselves into small communities of common interest which they might stay in for a long time. See where I’m going with this??

A couple of observations though:
1) Last time people were only in one community – this time they will be in many so some notion of reputation porting might be important
2) I am not a naive believer in PROGRESS but this has all come about because of increased choice. Whilst the disappearance of trust is a concern it is the flip side of some very positive developments.
3) Could this be the end of Marxism as a philosophy? Internet communities eliminate alienation (and hence the inherent contradiction of capitalism) by giving people a way to find trust and meaning.

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