Comments on: Identifying the source of the problem http://confusedofcalcutta.com/2007/03/29/identifying-the-source-of-the-problem/ a blog about information Fri, 19 Mar 2010 09:20:53 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.2 hourly 1 By: Bored? Let’s fix it! » Identity - there is much to gain from getting it right [The Equity Kicker] http://confusedofcalcutta.com/2007/03/29/identifying-the-source-of-the-problem/comment-page-1/#comment-116493 Bored? Let’s fix it! » Identity - there is much to gain from getting it right [The Equity Kicker] Fri, 30 Mar 2007 13:56:50 +0000 http://confusedofcalcutta.com/2007/03/29/identifying-the-source-of-the-problem/#comment-116493 [...] response to the nightmare Kathy Sierra has been enduring, JP posted about how getting identity right would go a long way to preventing a recurrence of what she [...] [...] response to the nightmare Kathy Sierra has been enduring, JP posted about how getting identity right would go a long way to preventing a recurrence of what she [...]

]]> By: The Equity Kicker » Blog Archive » Identity - there is much to gain from getting it right http://confusedofcalcutta.com/2007/03/29/identifying-the-source-of-the-problem/comment-page-1/#comment-116481 The Equity Kicker » Blog Archive » Identity - there is much to gain from getting it right Fri, 30 Mar 2007 13:22:47 +0000 http://confusedofcalcutta.com/2007/03/29/identifying-the-source-of-the-problem/#comment-116481 [...] response to the nightmare Kathy Sierra has been enduring, JP posted about how getting identity right would go a long way to preventing a recurrence of what she [...] [...] response to the nightmare Kathy Sierra has been enduring, JP posted about how getting identity right would go a long way to preventing a recurrence of what she [...]

]]> By: Stephen Smoliar http://confusedofcalcutta.com/2007/03/29/identifying-the-source-of-the-problem/comment-page-1/#comment-116270 Stephen Smoliar Thu, 29 Mar 2007 22:59:47 +0000 http://confusedofcalcutta.com/2007/03/29/identifying-the-source-of-the-problem/#comment-116270 JP, I sympathize with your suspicion. I just think we need to be careful about not throwing the baby out with the bathwater (no matter how bad the current bathwater stinks)! Remember that both the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution were products of a lot of self-interested haggling. (Unless I am mistaken, there is at least a bit of that in Magna Carta, too!) On the other hand, if we all recognize their value IN THEORY, then the debate can be confined to questions of practice! Meanwhile, I look forward to reading your latest thoughts on Identity. JP, I sympathize with your suspicion. I just think we need to be careful about not throwing the baby out with the bathwater (no matter how bad the current bathwater stinks)! Remember that both the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution were products of a lot of self-interested haggling. (Unless I am mistaken, there is at least a bit of that in Magna Carta, too!) On the other hand, if we all recognize their value IN THEORY, then the debate can be confined to questions of practice! Meanwhile, I look forward to reading your latest thoughts on Identity.

]]> By: JP http://confusedofcalcutta.com/2007/03/29/identifying-the-source-of-the-problem/comment-page-1/#comment-116237 JP Thu, 29 Mar 2007 20:03:24 +0000 http://confusedofcalcutta.com/2007/03/29/identifying-the-source-of-the-problem/#comment-116237 Stephen, I'm with you on the delicate interplay. Not as sure as you are about the validity of examining the workings of Government, my suspicion is that Government as it works today is a far cry from Government at the time of writing of the Constitution. Sometimes I feel that the only life-form that has gained as a result is the lobbyist.... More than happy to spend more time extending what I mean about identity; I will do so over the next few weeks. Stephen, I’m with you on the delicate interplay. Not as sure as you are about the validity of examining the workings of Government, my suspicion is that Government as it works today is a far cry from Government at the time of writing of the Constitution. Sometimes I feel that the only life-form that has gained as a result is the lobbyist….

More than happy to spend more time extending what I mean about identity; I will do so over the next few weeks.

]]> By: Stephen Smoliar http://confusedofcalcutta.com/2007/03/29/identifying-the-source-of-the-problem/comment-page-1/#comment-116234 Stephen Smoliar Thu, 29 Mar 2007 19:52:36 +0000 http://confusedofcalcutta.com/2007/03/29/identifying-the-source-of-the-problem/#comment-116234 JP, I certainly share your feelings about knee-jerk attempts at ANYTHING. Put another way, I am equally opposed to those who, as a matter of reflex, OPPOSE and ENDORSE governance, respectively! I also believe we need to be very cautious in any move towards governance. History has taught us how delicate the concept is, and the opportunities for failure will always outnumber those for success. Nevertheless, unless we examined the concept long enough to develop a strong model of its assets and liabilities, I think we are in serious danger of falling victim to something worse. Any good classroom instructor knows that a crowd can have wisdom, but the emergence of that wisdom still requires some kind of guiding hand. Like it or not, the visible version tends to work better than the invisible one! So let me try to elaborate on my own conception of governance as an invitation for you to do the same on your conception of Identity. As I see it, one of the most important questions surrounding being-in-the-world-that-the-Internet-made involves dealing with the delicate interplay between permanence and change (to shamelessly appropriate a Kenneth Burke title). The United States government deals with this interplay through separation of powers. The Executive branch is authorized by the Constitution to look after permanence, and the Legislative branch is responsible for introducing change. The Judiciary branch then serves two mediating functions. The first is between the population and the government that is supposed to be serving that population; but just as important is the second, which has the authority to mediate between the other two branches. Because the Internet is such a volatile environment, we cannot ignore the many ways in which permanence and change keep bumping into each other. I am not proposing a full-blown system of cyberlaws that reflects the "American solution;" but I think there is great value in examining how the Constitution dealt with such a fundamental problem. This territory is so uncertain that we are going to need to learn what we need to learn. Examining the workings of a government that lasted more that two hundred years could be a good start! Those are the initial cards I wish to lay on the table. Now I should ask whether or not you feel as strongly about this balance of permanence and change as I do; and, however, you answer that question, to offer up your current thoughts on what you mean by Identity and what the operational implications of those thoughts are. With my own background I have tended to think about identity as one of the major attributes of consciousness, but I am not sure that it the appropriate context for your three Is. JP,

I certainly share your feelings about knee-jerk attempts at ANYTHING. Put another way, I am equally opposed to those who, as a matter of reflex, OPPOSE and ENDORSE governance, respectively! I also believe we need to be very cautious in any move towards governance. History has taught us how delicate the concept is, and the opportunities for failure will always outnumber those for success. Nevertheless, unless we examined the concept long enough to develop a strong model of its assets and liabilities, I think we are in serious danger of falling victim to something worse.

Any good classroom instructor knows that a crowd can have wisdom, but the emergence of that wisdom still requires some kind of guiding hand. Like it or not, the visible version tends to work better than the invisible one! So let me try to elaborate on my own conception of governance as an invitation for you to do the same on your conception of Identity.

As I see it, one of the most important questions surrounding being-in-the-world-that-the-Internet-made involves dealing with the delicate interplay between permanence and change (to shamelessly appropriate a Kenneth Burke title). The United States government deals with this interplay through separation of powers. The Executive branch is authorized by the Constitution to look after permanence, and the Legislative branch is responsible for introducing change. The Judiciary branch then serves two mediating functions. The first is between the population and the government that is supposed to be serving that population; but just as important is the second, which has the authority to mediate between the other two branches.

Because the Internet is such a volatile environment, we cannot ignore the many ways in which permanence and change keep bumping into each other. I am not proposing a full-blown system of cyberlaws that reflects the “American solution;” but I think there is great value in examining how the Constitution dealt with such a fundamental problem. This territory is so uncertain that we are going to need to learn what we need to learn. Examining the workings of a government that lasted more that two hundred years could be a good start!

Those are the initial cards I wish to lay on the table. Now I should ask whether or not you feel as strongly about this balance of permanence and change as I do; and, however, you answer that question, to offer up your current thoughts on what you mean by Identity and what the operational implications of those thoughts are. With my own background I have tended to think about identity as one of the major attributes of consciousness, but I am not sure that it the appropriate context for your three Is.

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