Comments on: Musing about trust and vulnerability in the space where real and virtual meet http://confusedofcalcutta.com/2007/08/14/musing-about-trust-and-vulnerability-in-the-space-where-real-and-virtual-meet/ a blog about information Mon, 06 Feb 2012 01:37:12 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: Crowds Are No Wiser Than They Ever Have Been | WOWNDADI http://confusedofcalcutta.com/2007/08/14/musing-about-trust-and-vulnerability-in-the-space-where-real-and-virtual-meet/comment-page-1/#comment-448852 Crowds Are No Wiser Than They Ever Have Been | WOWNDADI Tue, 09 Dec 2008 18:37:21 +0000 http://confusedofcalcutta.com/2007/08/14/musing-about-trust-and-vulnerability-in-the-space-where-real-and-virtual-meet/#comment-448852 [...] changed by the Internet and “Web 2.0″, specifically the power of crowd sourcing. J P took the example of his pacemaker. Would we be happy to have surgery performed on us under the direction of the wisdom of crowds? A [...] [...] changed by the Internet and “Web 2.0″, specifically the power of crowd sourcing. J P took the example of his pacemaker. Would we be happy to have surgery performed on us under the direction of the wisdom of crowds? A [...]

]]> By: Peter Smith http://confusedofcalcutta.com/2007/08/14/musing-about-trust-and-vulnerability-in-the-space-where-real-and-virtual-meet/comment-page-1/#comment-174825 Peter Smith Thu, 16 Aug 2007 13:35:45 +0000 http://confusedofcalcutta.com/2007/08/14/musing-about-trust-and-vulnerability-in-the-space-where-real-and-virtual-meet/#comment-174825 Yes, the signals are increasing. But the human animal has proven to be superb at abstracting the significant from the distracting. So far we have shown no signs of succumbing to the information overload. You interpret the intersection of the real and virtual worlds as increasing the hybrid signals and therefore imperiling us with information overload. Certainly there is a real danger that this could happen. But I want to suggest that, counter intuitively, the reverse is happening for four reasons. First, in earlier decades we were hostage to the presumed professional skills of those in our vicinity. Now the virtual world allows us to check their conclusions by consulting others in the virtual world. This extended sharing of experiences helps us make better sense of the world around us by liberating us from the proximate. Secondly the virtual world is evolving means of abstracting information that we can appeal to. Wikipedia is an early, if still imperfect example of what is happening. I call this liberating us from presumed authority. Thirdly it liberates us from the persona. The professional intermediary who interprets our signals has a persona finely tuned to instilling belief and respect. This leads us to replace critical assessment with credulous acceptance. The virtual world strips away the mask of the persona. Fourthly we are liberated from dogma. The flood of information the virtual world exposes us to seems to me to have the effect of sharpening our critical and evaluative faculties as we are forced to search through, sort and categorise the information. In earlier decades we evolved to quickly make sense of a multitude of visual, auditory, olfactory and tactile cues. Now we are evolving to quickly make sense of a multitude of cognitive cues. Yes, the signals are increasing. But the human animal has proven to be superb at abstracting the significant from the distracting. So far we have shown no signs of succumbing to the information overload.
You interpret the intersection of the real and virtual worlds as increasing the hybrid signals and therefore imperiling us with information overload.
Certainly there is a real danger that this could happen. But I want to suggest that, counter intuitively, the reverse is happening for four reasons.
First, in earlier decades we were hostage to the presumed professional skills of those in our vicinity. Now the virtual world allows us to check their conclusions by consulting others in the virtual world. This extended sharing of experiences helps us make better sense of the world around us by liberating us from the proximate.
Secondly the virtual world is evolving means of abstracting information that we can appeal to. Wikipedia is an early, if still imperfect example of what is happening. I call this liberating us from presumed authority.
Thirdly it liberates us from the persona. The professional intermediary who interprets our signals has a persona finely tuned to instilling belief and respect. This leads us to replace critical assessment with credulous acceptance. The virtual world strips away the mask of the persona.
Fourthly we are liberated from dogma. The flood of information the virtual world exposes us to seems to me to have the effect of sharpening our critical and evaluative faculties as we are forced to search through, sort and categorise the information.

In earlier decades we evolved to quickly make sense of a multitude of visual, auditory, olfactory and tactile cues.
Now we are evolving to quickly make sense of a multitude of cognitive cues.

]]> By: Stephen Smoliar http://confusedofcalcutta.com/2007/08/14/musing-about-trust-and-vulnerability-in-the-space-where-real-and-virtual-meet/comment-page-1/#comment-174131 Stephen Smoliar Tue, 14 Aug 2007 21:24:08 +0000 http://confusedofcalcutta.com/2007/08/14/musing-about-trust-and-vulnerability-in-the-space-where-real-and-virtual-meet/#comment-174131 JP, I do not think these issues have anything to do with the "meeting" of the virtual and the "real" (which I prefer to call "physical"). I think it has more to do with how the prevailing cultures of work and leisure seem to be eroding our capacity for social discourse. This was the primary message behind the "death of communication" post on my own blog yesterday: http://therehearsalstudio.blogspot.com/2007/08/death-of-communication.html Note that this post incorporates that Stravinsky quote I threw at you and takes it in a new direction. Note, also, that my point of departure consisted of some "hard" data points reported on the CNET News Blog. This was a serious effort on my part to get beyond the anecdotal! For all that your final paragraph is equally valid in either context (the meeting of the virtual and the physical or the more general question of social discourse). Nevertheless, here I must also disagree. We are dealing with questions of normative behavior, and normative behavior can only be covenanted under the most draconian forms of authoritarianism. In any other setting human behavior one can attempt (but not necessarily succeed) at INFLUENCING but not covenanting. Unfortunately, influence is most often achieved through communication; and, if our capacity for social discourse really IS deteriorating, then your drowning metaphor may be the shoe that fits the best. JP, I do not think these issues have anything to do with the “meeting” of the virtual and the “real” (which I prefer to call “physical”). I think it has more to do with how the prevailing cultures of work and leisure seem to be eroding our capacity for social discourse. This was the primary message behind the “death of communication” post on my own blog yesterday:

http://therehearsalstudio.blogspot.com/2007/08/death-of-communication.html

Note that this post incorporates that Stravinsky quote I threw at you and takes it in a new direction. Note, also, that my point of departure consisted of some “hard” data points reported on the CNET News Blog. This was a serious effort on my part to get beyond the anecdotal!

For all that your final paragraph is equally valid in either context (the meeting of the virtual and the physical or the more general question of social discourse). Nevertheless, here I must also disagree. We are dealing with questions of normative behavior, and normative behavior can only be covenanted under the most draconian forms of authoritarianism. In any other setting human behavior one can attempt (but not necessarily succeed) at INFLUENCING but not covenanting. Unfortunately, influence is most often achieved through communication; and, if our capacity for social discourse really IS deteriorating, then your drowning metaphor may be the shoe that fits the best.

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