Comments on: Nobody was in charge of the operation: a sad motto for our times? http://confusedofcalcutta.com/2007/09/22/nobody-was-in-charge-of-the-operation-a-sad-motto-for-our-times/ a blog about information Mon, 06 Feb 2012 01:37:12 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: JP http://confusedofcalcutta.com/2007/09/22/nobody-was-in-charge-of-the-operation-a-sad-motto-for-our-times/comment-page-1/#comment-192579 JP Sun, 23 Sep 2007 15:44:29 +0000 http://confusedofcalcutta.com/2007/09/22/nobody-was-in-charge-of-the-operation-a-sad-motto-for-our-times/#comment-192579 :-) :-)

]]> By: Stephen Smoliar http://confusedofcalcutta.com/2007/09/22/nobody-was-in-charge-of-the-operation-a-sad-motto-for-our-times/comment-page-1/#comment-192576 Stephen Smoliar Sun, 23 Sep 2007 15:31:36 +0000 http://confusedofcalcutta.com/2007/09/22/nobody-was-in-charge-of-the-operation-a-sad-motto-for-our-times/#comment-192576 JP, back when I taught at the University of Pennsylvania, I encouraged my students to always seek out the consistent contrary position. It was what made the learning experience interesting for them (and the teaching experience interesting for me)! Since this was in the Engineering College, I did not bother to tell them that this was called "dialectical inquiry" or that it had been around since Socrates! The only thing I really abhor are blanket generalizations. I am cynical that so many of them fly around so freely, but I believe they should be challenged with skepticism rather than cynicism. As I mentioned when you were musing about experts and amateurs, it is almost an "obligation of reason" to view the assertions from both camps in the same skeptical light! http://confusedofcalcutta.com/2007/09/09/thinking-about-citizendium-and-wikipedia-part-1/ JP, back when I taught at the University of Pennsylvania, I encouraged my students to always seek out the consistent contrary position. It was what made the learning experience interesting for them (and the teaching experience interesting for me)! Since this was in the Engineering College, I did not bother to tell them that this was called “dialectical inquiry” or that it had been around since Socrates!

The only thing I really abhor are blanket generalizations. I am cynical that so many of them fly around so freely, but I believe they should be challenged with skepticism rather than cynicism. As I mentioned when you were musing about experts and amateurs, it is almost an “obligation of reason” to view the assertions from both camps in the same skeptical light!

http://confusedofcalcutta.com/2007/09/09/thinking-about-citizendium-and-wikipedia-part-1/

]]> By: JP http://confusedofcalcutta.com/2007/09/22/nobody-was-in-charge-of-the-operation-a-sad-motto-for-our-times/comment-page-1/#comment-192064 JP Sat, 22 Sep 2007 18:28:06 +0000 http://confusedofcalcutta.com/2007/09/22/nobody-was-in-charge-of-the-operation-a-sad-motto-for-our-times/#comment-192064 Stephen, actually I don't see the irony. We have fundamentally different perspectives on this. You abhor many things to do with the internet, with decentralised control, with amateurs. On the other hand, I have no time for centralised control, I love the web, and I think that many sins have been committed in the name of "expertise". It seems to boil down to perceptions of control and of risk. You prefer oligopolies and risk aversion, I prefer democracies and risk appetite. You seem cynical, I don't mind being called Utopian. I continue to be bemused by your willingness, almost obsession, to take a contrary position on pretty much anything I write. Imagine a student of yours taking a consistent contrary position on everything you said in your class. You see? It can only happen on the web. That's what makes the web the web. As long as we don't create micro-groupthink cabals, this is the right way. Stephen, actually I don’t see the irony.

We have fundamentally different perspectives on this. You abhor many things to do with the internet, with decentralised control, with amateurs. On the other hand, I have no time for centralised control, I love the web, and I think that many sins have been committed in the name of “expertise”.

It seems to boil down to perceptions of control and of risk. You prefer oligopolies and risk aversion, I prefer democracies and risk appetite.

You seem cynical, I don’t mind being called Utopian.

I continue to be bemused by your willingness, almost obsession, to take a contrary position on pretty much anything I write.

Imagine a student of yours taking a consistent contrary position on everything you said in your class. You see? It can only happen on the web.

That’s what makes the web the web. As long as we don’t create micro-groupthink cabals, this is the right way.

]]> By: Stephen Smoliar http://confusedofcalcutta.com/2007/09/22/nobody-was-in-charge-of-the-operation-a-sad-motto-for-our-times/comment-page-1/#comment-192029 Stephen Smoliar Sat, 22 Sep 2007 16:16:55 +0000 http://confusedofcalcutta.com/2007/09/22/nobody-was-in-charge-of-the-operation-a-sad-motto-for-our-times/#comment-192029 Is there anything new about this malady? Is it not just the latest incarnation of the "nobody's fault" syndrome that dominated the logic behind the circumstances of LITTLE DORRIT? The only difference seems to be that, thanks to globalization, the syndrome now presents itself through transnational dynamics: http://therehearsalstudio.blogspot.com/2007/06/culture-murder.html Do you see the irony here, JP? Back when Kathy Sierra was receiving her death threats and I interpreted the circumstances as an argument that we had to get beyond "amateur" thinking about governance in cyberspace, you dismissed the suggestion in preference to a better understanding of identity. Now you bemoan the "state where it is no longer possible to lead or 'govern.'" Could it be that the problem is not with those "whole armies of intermediaries" but with the amateurism of their work practices brought on by models of business processes that basically factor expertise out of the equation? Are we not all beginning to wake up to the consequences of what I have called "the world the Internet has made?" http://therehearsalstudio.blogspot.com/2007/07/can-anyone-do-anything-about-pathology.html Is there anything new about this malady? Is it not just the latest incarnation of the “nobody’s fault” syndrome that dominated the logic behind the circumstances of LITTLE DORRIT? The only difference seems to be that, thanks to globalization, the syndrome now presents itself through transnational dynamics:

http://therehearsalstudio.blogspot.com/2007/06/culture-murder.html

Do you see the irony here, JP? Back when Kathy Sierra was receiving her death threats and I interpreted the circumstances as an argument that we had to get beyond “amateur” thinking about governance in cyberspace, you dismissed the suggestion in preference to a better understanding of identity. Now you bemoan the “state where it is no longer possible to lead or ‘govern.’” Could it be that the problem is not with those “whole armies of intermediaries” but with the amateurism of their work practices brought on by models of business processes that basically factor expertise out of the equation? Are we not all beginning to wake up to the consequences of what I have called “the world the Internet has made?”

http://therehearsalstudio.blogspot.com/2007/07/can-anyone-do-anything-about-pathology.html

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