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	<title>Comments on: But Miss, they&#8217;re not listening to me</title>
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	<link>http://confusedofcalcutta.com/2007/11/18/but-miss-theyre-not-listening-to-me/</link>
	<description>a blog about information</description>
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		<title>By: A Veil Through Which You Could Not See &#171; Karl Quirino&#8217;s Blog</title>
		<link>http://confusedofcalcutta.com/2007/11/18/but-miss-theyre-not-listening-to-me/comment-page-1/#comment-527138</link>
		<dc:creator>A Veil Through Which You Could Not See &#171; Karl Quirino&#8217;s Blog</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 25 May 2009 11:21:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://confusedofcalcutta.com/2007/11/18/but-miss-theyre-not-listening-to-me/#comment-527138</guid>
		<description>[...] read JP Rangaswami’s Confused of Calcutta blog “But Miss, they’re not listening to me” the other day and something about it caught my [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] read JP Rangaswami’s Confused of Calcutta blog “But Miss, they’re not listening to me” the other day and something about it caught my [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Everyone&#8217;s a peer. Live with it. &#171; brisebois blog</title>
		<link>http://confusedofcalcutta.com/2007/11/18/but-miss-theyre-not-listening-to-me/comment-page-1/#comment-245984</link>
		<dc:creator>Everyone&#8217;s a peer. Live with it. &#171; brisebois blog</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 Dec 2007 18:57:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://confusedofcalcutta.com/2007/11/18/but-miss-theyre-not-listening-to-me/#comment-245984</guid>
		<description>[...] Everyone&#8217;s a peer. Live with&#160;it. Posted in Know your audience by richard brisebois on December 21st, 2007   Itâ€™s a new world out there. We canâ€™t go around saying â€œBut Miss, theyâ€™re not listening to meâ€. We have to earn the respect of our peers. But remember, in a networked society, everyone is a peer.Â  Your professors. Your children. Your subordinates. Your bosses. (confused of calcutta) [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Everyone&#8217;s a peer. Live with&nbsp;it. Posted in Know your audience by richard brisebois on December 21st, 2007   Itâ€™s a new world out there. We canâ€™t go around saying â€œBut Miss, theyâ€™re not listening to meâ€. We have to earn the respect of our peers. But remember, in a networked society, everyone is a peer.Â  Your professors. Your children. Your subordinates. Your bosses. (confused of calcutta) [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Command and Control is Dead. Long Live Converse! &#171; Great Presentations Mean Business</title>
		<link>http://confusedofcalcutta.com/2007/11/18/but-miss-theyre-not-listening-to-me/comment-page-1/#comment-230542</link>
		<dc:creator>Command and Control is Dead. Long Live Converse! &#171; Great Presentations Mean Business</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 23 Nov 2007 23:35:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://confusedofcalcutta.com/2007/11/18/but-miss-theyre-not-listening-to-me/#comment-230542</guid>
		<description>[...] November 23, 2007 Command and Control is Dead. Long Live&#160;Converse! Posted by Laura Athavale Fitton under audience first, effectiveness, presentation skills, speaking &#160;  Found in Anne Truit Zelenka&#8217;s links: But Miss, they&#8217;re not listening to me [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] November 23, 2007 Command and Control is Dead. Long Live&nbsp;Converse! Posted by Laura Athavale Fitton under audience first, effectiveness, presentation skills, speaking &nbsp;  Found in Anne Truit Zelenka&#8217;s links: But Miss, they&#8217;re not listening to me [...]</p>
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		<title>By: JP</title>
		<link>http://confusedofcalcutta.com/2007/11/18/but-miss-theyre-not-listening-to-me/comment-page-1/#comment-229757</link>
		<dc:creator>JP</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 Nov 2007 14:32:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://confusedofcalcutta.com/2007/11/18/but-miss-theyre-not-listening-to-me/#comment-229757</guid>
		<description>Hey Clarence, good to see you back. Your efforts to remain open to new (and better) possibilities remain an inspiration to me.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hey Clarence, good to see you back. Your efforts to remain open to new (and better) possibilities remain an inspiration to me.</p>
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		<title>By: Clarence Fisher</title>
		<link>http://confusedofcalcutta.com/2007/11/18/but-miss-theyre-not-listening-to-me/comment-page-1/#comment-229718</link>
		<dc:creator>Clarence Fisher</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 Nov 2007 12:48:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://confusedofcalcutta.com/2007/11/18/but-miss-theyre-not-listening-to-me/#comment-229718</guid>
		<description>I&#039;ve been away from my aggregator for a few days so I am late coming to this conversation, but I think you have truly hit a nail on the head with these thoughts. As an educator, trying to help students become independent, globally connected and contextualized learners, we have had to vastly change our pedagogies and truly consider what the meaning of the all of the activity in classrooms is. It cannot be about cramming reams of soon to be outdated information into developing minds. Instead, it must be about conversation, context, and connections. We are thinking more about ideas of flow and of studio in learning environments. These spaces function best when the relationships have been flattened and the needs of individuals are taken into account. As a teacher, I understand I am still the &quot;master learner&quot; in my place and that I am accountable for what happens there, but changing the goals of the space opens us up to new possibilities and relieves some of the failure of the imagination that education has suffered for so long.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ve been away from my aggregator for a few days so I am late coming to this conversation, but I think you have truly hit a nail on the head with these thoughts. As an educator, trying to help students become independent, globally connected and contextualized learners, we have had to vastly change our pedagogies and truly consider what the meaning of the all of the activity in classrooms is. It cannot be about cramming reams of soon to be outdated information into developing minds. Instead, it must be about conversation, context, and connections. We are thinking more about ideas of flow and of studio in learning environments. These spaces function best when the relationships have been flattened and the needs of individuals are taken into account. As a teacher, I understand I am still the &#8220;master learner&#8221; in my place and that I am accountable for what happens there, but changing the goals of the space opens us up to new possibilities and relieves some of the failure of the imagination that education has suffered for so long.</p>
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		<title>By: JP</title>
		<link>http://confusedofcalcutta.com/2007/11/18/but-miss-theyre-not-listening-to-me/comment-page-1/#comment-228719</link>
		<dc:creator>JP</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 20 Nov 2007 22:30:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://confusedofcalcutta.com/2007/11/18/but-miss-theyre-not-listening-to-me/#comment-228719</guid>
		<description>Stephen, I&#039;m no expert. But my sense is that back-channel technology has come a long way in terms of ease of use and convenience over the last few years. Trials prior to that, however prodigious they may have been, may have been marred, at least in part,  by the clunkiness of the technology.

You only have to look at mp3 players and the iPod effect to see what I mean.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Stephen, I&#8217;m no expert. But my sense is that back-channel technology has come a long way in terms of ease of use and convenience over the last few years. Trials prior to that, however prodigious they may have been, may have been marred, at least in part,  by the clunkiness of the technology.</p>
<p>You only have to look at mp3 players and the iPod effect to see what I mean.</p>
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		<title>By: Stephen Smoliar</title>
		<link>http://confusedofcalcutta.com/2007/11/18/but-miss-theyre-not-listening-to-me/comment-page-1/#comment-228571</link>
		<dc:creator>Stephen Smoliar</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 20 Nov 2007 17:28:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://confusedofcalcutta.com/2007/11/18/but-miss-theyre-not-listening-to-me/#comment-228571</guid>
		<description>JP, first let&#039;s sort out the apples (back-channel technology) and oranges (education).

I have had a fair amount of experience (mostly positive) with back-channel technology.  More important, however, is that, through my past connection with the Hawaii International Conference on Systems Science (HICSS), I have had even MORE experience with evaluating the technology in a prodigious number of settings.  Much of this work was launched by Jay Nunamaker;  but many of the really good papers on evaluation come from the efforts of his colleague, Robert Briggs.  These guys have done excellent work, first sorting out when things work from when they do not work and then trying to get to the heart of WHY they did or did not work.  I do not dispute the value of your own personal experiences, but the objective literature is definitely worth reading.

On the education side I have PARC to thank for giving me some really good exposure to the most embattled trenches.  PARC has formed an excellent relationship with the Association of California School Superintendents and Administrators, and those guys are all-too-willing to let us know about the realities of urban setting at all levels.  Again, there is both good news and bad when it comes to bringing technology into those settings.  Much of this is now documented in the literature of the professional societies for educators;  but my own familiarity comes more from word-of-mouth.  The most important thing I have learned is that embracing a technology is never a solution in itself.  The problems about the ineffectiveness of so many of today&#039;s classroom experiences need to be addressed within a scope that goes way beyond where your optimistic thoughts currently lead you.  The good news is that, at least in California, for all of the burdens of budgetary and regulatory constraints, they ARE being addressed; and they are being addressed by people whose awareness of technology is impressively perceptive.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>JP, first let&#8217;s sort out the apples (back-channel technology) and oranges (education).</p>
<p>I have had a fair amount of experience (mostly positive) with back-channel technology.  More important, however, is that, through my past connection with the Hawaii International Conference on Systems Science (HICSS), I have had even MORE experience with evaluating the technology in a prodigious number of settings.  Much of this work was launched by Jay Nunamaker;  but many of the really good papers on evaluation come from the efforts of his colleague, Robert Briggs.  These guys have done excellent work, first sorting out when things work from when they do not work and then trying to get to the heart of WHY they did or did not work.  I do not dispute the value of your own personal experiences, but the objective literature is definitely worth reading.</p>
<p>On the education side I have PARC to thank for giving me some really good exposure to the most embattled trenches.  PARC has formed an excellent relationship with the Association of California School Superintendents and Administrators, and those guys are all-too-willing to let us know about the realities of urban setting at all levels.  Again, there is both good news and bad when it comes to bringing technology into those settings.  Much of this is now documented in the literature of the professional societies for educators;  but my own familiarity comes more from word-of-mouth.  The most important thing I have learned is that embracing a technology is never a solution in itself.  The problems about the ineffectiveness of so many of today&#8217;s classroom experiences need to be addressed within a scope that goes way beyond where your optimistic thoughts currently lead you.  The good news is that, at least in California, for all of the burdens of budgetary and regulatory constraints, they ARE being addressed; and they are being addressed by people whose awareness of technology is impressively perceptive.</p>
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		<title>By: JP</title>
		<link>http://confusedofcalcutta.com/2007/11/18/but-miss-theyre-not-listening-to-me/comment-page-1/#comment-228025</link>
		<dc:creator>JP</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 20 Nov 2007 00:28:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://confusedofcalcutta.com/2007/11/18/but-miss-theyre-not-listening-to-me/#comment-228025</guid>
		<description>Stephen, I think you are seriously underestimating the sheer power of the hecklebot, and of back-channels in general, in the context of education. 

They are no longer experimental, they have already become an integral part of many of the conferences/workshops/seminars I attend. And I see immense value in their being used in secondary and higher education. 

If you visit urban secondary school classrooms, quite often there is a complete breakdown in the traditional authority structures. Peer recognition and respect is all that rules. As society we have three choices: One, to push back and seek to reimpose historical authority. Two, to do the normal apathetic thing and not care. Three, to try and motivate the youth.

You know I&#039;m an optimist. So I want to try option 3. I think hecklebots and back-channels are wonderful opportunities for us to do this. I guess your students don&#039;t tend to have a motivation problem; maybe they also have a higher respect for authority than is the case in urban secondary school classrooms.

I do think of the consequences. But my perception of the consequences is different from yours. If we don&#039;t embrace techniques such as back-channels, my fear is that we will continue to foster an underclass, continue to disenfranchise students unnecessarily. 

Back-channels are cool, but they are not about being cool. The technology per se is not new, it is older than the mobile phone. In the conferences I go to, much of what I see (in back-channel usage) is constructive and valuable to the community. And peer pressure ensures that misuse stays at a minimum.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Stephen, I think you are seriously underestimating the sheer power of the hecklebot, and of back-channels in general, in the context of education. </p>
<p>They are no longer experimental, they have already become an integral part of many of the conferences/workshops/seminars I attend. And I see immense value in their being used in secondary and higher education. </p>
<p>If you visit urban secondary school classrooms, quite often there is a complete breakdown in the traditional authority structures. Peer recognition and respect is all that rules. As society we have three choices: One, to push back and seek to reimpose historical authority. Two, to do the normal apathetic thing and not care. Three, to try and motivate the youth.</p>
<p>You know I&#8217;m an optimist. So I want to try option 3. I think hecklebots and back-channels are wonderful opportunities for us to do this. I guess your students don&#8217;t tend to have a motivation problem; maybe they also have a higher respect for authority than is the case in urban secondary school classrooms.</p>
<p>I do think of the consequences. But my perception of the consequences is different from yours. If we don&#8217;t embrace techniques such as back-channels, my fear is that we will continue to foster an underclass, continue to disenfranchise students unnecessarily. </p>
<p>Back-channels are cool, but they are not about being cool. The technology per se is not new, it is older than the mobile phone. In the conferences I go to, much of what I see (in back-channel usage) is constructive and valuable to the community. And peer pressure ensures that misuse stays at a minimum.</p>
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		<title>By: Stephen Smoliar</title>
		<link>http://confusedofcalcutta.com/2007/11/18/but-miss-theyre-not-listening-to-me/comment-page-1/#comment-227949</link>
		<dc:creator>Stephen Smoliar</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 19 Nov 2007 21:49:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://confusedofcalcutta.com/2007/11/18/but-miss-theyre-not-listening-to-me/#comment-227949</guid>
		<description>Alice, pessimist that I am, I see the HeckleBot as a source of noise, rather than signal.  This would result if it were used for its own sake, rather than for active listening.  It reminds me of some of the experiments that Roger Schank ran using simulations to teach physics.  One involved two trains on a collision course.  The student had to figure out how to slow down the train before getting to a switch point without derailing it.  The problem was that the sound of the collision was REALLY cool, and lots of kids preferred hearing it to solving the problem!  I can see all sorts of &quot;really cool&quot; things you could do with a HeckleBot that even JP would have to agree had no &quot;real value in education!&quot;

This is another illustration of my favorite motto:  Think about the consequences before you pull the switch!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Alice, pessimist that I am, I see the HeckleBot as a source of noise, rather than signal.  This would result if it were used for its own sake, rather than for active listening.  It reminds me of some of the experiments that Roger Schank ran using simulations to teach physics.  One involved two trains on a collision course.  The student had to figure out how to slow down the train before getting to a switch point without derailing it.  The problem was that the sound of the collision was REALLY cool, and lots of kids preferred hearing it to solving the problem!  I can see all sorts of &#8220;really cool&#8221; things you could do with a HeckleBot that even JP would have to agree had no &#8220;real value in education!&#8221;</p>
<p>This is another illustration of my favorite motto:  Think about the consequences before you pull the switch!</p>
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		<title>By: Alice Bachini-Smith</title>
		<link>http://confusedofcalcutta.com/2007/11/18/but-miss-theyre-not-listening-to-me/comment-page-1/#comment-227895</link>
		<dc:creator>Alice Bachini-Smith</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 19 Nov 2007 19:56:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://confusedofcalcutta.com/2007/11/18/but-miss-theyre-not-listening-to-me/#comment-227895</guid>
		<description>Stephen,

don&#039;t you think the hecklebot would be a great active listening device, and using it a type of complementary or multi-tasking (depending what you call it) that would indeed change people&#039;s behaviour in the direction JP identifies- towards everyone being peers in the sense of conversing equally actively?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Stephen,</p>
<p>don&#8217;t you think the hecklebot would be a great active listening device, and using it a type of complementary or multi-tasking (depending what you call it) that would indeed change people&#8217;s behaviour in the direction JP identifies- towards everyone being peers in the sense of conversing equally actively?</p>
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