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	<title>Comments on: More musing about news: wikinews</title>
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	<link>http://confusedofcalcutta.com/2008/09/12/more-musing-about-news-wikinews/</link>
	<description>a blog about information</description>
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		<title>By: JP</title>
		<link>http://confusedofcalcutta.com/2008/09/12/more-musing-about-news-wikinews/comment-page-1/#comment-423841</link>
		<dc:creator>JP</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 24 Sep 2008 14:07:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://confusedofcalcutta.com/?p=1325#comment-423841</guid>
		<description>Ben, did you ever see the Idiot&#039;s Guide to Comments as reported in the Onion? Brilliant. Search for &quot;onion&quot; at this blog and you&#039;ll find it.

Matt, thanks for the info, I will read it with interest.

And thanks for your comments, everyone.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ben, did you ever see the Idiot&#8217;s Guide to Comments as reported in the Onion? Brilliant. Search for &#8220;onion&#8221; at this blog and you&#8217;ll find it.</p>
<p>Matt, thanks for the info, I will read it with interest.</p>
<p>And thanks for your comments, everyone.</p>
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		<title>By: Matt</title>
		<link>http://confusedofcalcutta.com/2008/09/12/more-musing-about-news-wikinews/comment-page-1/#comment-423644</link>
		<dc:creator>Matt</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 23 Sep 2008 21:32:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://confusedofcalcutta.com/?p=1325#comment-423644</guid>
		<description>Hi, JP. I&#039;m spearheading a project at the new Reynolds Journalism Institute at the University of Missouri to argue that it is, in fact, time for wikinews. Sort of. You can read my research and conclusions as I go along at &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.newsless.org&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Newsless.org&lt;/a&gt;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi, JP. I&#8217;m spearheading a project at the new Reynolds Journalism Institute at the University of Missouri to argue that it is, in fact, time for wikinews. Sort of. You can read my research and conclusions as I go along at <a href="http://www.newsless.org" rel="nofollow">Newsless.org</a>.</p>
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		<title>By: Benjamin M J Ellis</title>
		<link>http://confusedofcalcutta.com/2008/09/12/more-musing-about-news-wikinews/comment-page-1/#comment-423434</link>
		<dc:creator>Benjamin M J Ellis</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 23 Sep 2008 10:36:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://confusedofcalcutta.com/?p=1325#comment-423434</guid>
		<description>As an ex PR hack, I&#039;d say the biggest problem with news is the &#039;error of omission&#039; - that which gets left out is actually usually the post important to the punter.

Wiki&#039;s, sadly, don&#039;t help much with that, since you need someone who:

a) Knows the missing facts.

b) Is prepared to take the trouble/risk of pointing them out.

That said, these days I get very frustrated when I read a news story and can&#039;t add to it. Also frustrating when there are a thousand comments - to Alan&#039;s S/N comment.

Truth is a tricky thing to get too, and I feel bereft of answers as to better ways pursue it. Trust comes in to it, but trust is a tricky thing, even in this hyperconnected age.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As an ex PR hack, I&#8217;d say the biggest problem with news is the &#8216;error of omission&#8217; &#8211; that which gets left out is actually usually the post important to the punter.</p>
<p>Wiki&#8217;s, sadly, don&#8217;t help much with that, since you need someone who:</p>
<p>a) Knows the missing facts.</p>
<p>b) Is prepared to take the trouble/risk of pointing them out.</p>
<p>That said, these days I get very frustrated when I read a news story and can&#8217;t add to it. Also frustrating when there are a thousand comments &#8211; to Alan&#8217;s S/N comment.</p>
<p>Truth is a tricky thing to get too, and I feel bereft of answers as to better ways pursue it. Trust comes in to it, but trust is a tricky thing, even in this hyperconnected age.</p>
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		<title>By: alan p</title>
		<link>http://confusedofcalcutta.com/2008/09/12/more-musing-about-news-wikinews/comment-page-1/#comment-421272</link>
		<dc:creator>alan p</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 17 Sep 2008 17:50:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://confusedofcalcutta.com/?p=1325#comment-421272</guid>
		<description>I&#039;ve been interested in filtering, rather than aggregation fora long time, imho the &quot;River of News&quot; typically degenerates into a &quot;Sewer of Cr*p&quot; because there is (i) too much and (ii) the S/N ratio is often too low

Re news commons - ever since the United Airlines debacle I&#039;ve started to get very interested in how to get &quot;trust&quot; registered on a source - eg if it was clear that  the dateline was Googlestamped, not original.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ve been interested in filtering, rather than aggregation fora long time, imho the &#8220;River of News&#8221; typically degenerates into a &#8220;Sewer of Cr*p&#8221; because there is (i) too much and (ii) the S/N ratio is often too low</p>
<p>Re news commons &#8211; ever since the United Airlines debacle I&#8217;ve started to get very interested in how to get &#8220;trust&#8221; registered on a source &#8211; eg if it was clear that  the dateline was Googlestamped, not original.</p>
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		<title>By: JP</title>
		<link>http://confusedofcalcutta.com/2008/09/12/more-musing-about-news-wikinews/comment-page-1/#comment-419831</link>
		<dc:creator>JP</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 13 Sep 2008 18:38:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://confusedofcalcutta.com/?p=1325#comment-419831</guid>
		<description>John, I think there are three issues here. 

One is the facility to write. If a publishing tool (and here I consider MSM to be a publishing tool) has low or nonexistent barriers to entry, then the capacity for alarm and hyperbole is enhanced. That&#039;s what happens in some bulletin boards and, to a lesser extent, in Twitter.

The second is the facility to edit. Bulletin boards don&#039;t have edit facilities, they&#039;re based on a YOYOW principle, and therefore there is neither mechanism nor incentive to correct and repair. Wiki-style publishing mechanisms have the many-can-edit facility.

These two things then tie up with a third, the sheer number of &quot;reporters&quot;. MSM is restricted in this respect, in comparison with the number of people who may edit a wiki.

All wiki-like communal efforts need their 1000lb gorillas, their core, their moderators, the super-editors as it were. 

But the wikinews model is just more likely to scale: more reporters, faster collection, faster correction, quicker dissemination.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>John, I think there are three issues here. </p>
<p>One is the facility to write. If a publishing tool (and here I consider MSM to be a publishing tool) has low or nonexistent barriers to entry, then the capacity for alarm and hyperbole is enhanced. That&#8217;s what happens in some bulletin boards and, to a lesser extent, in Twitter.</p>
<p>The second is the facility to edit. Bulletin boards don&#8217;t have edit facilities, they&#8217;re based on a YOYOW principle, and therefore there is neither mechanism nor incentive to correct and repair. Wiki-style publishing mechanisms have the many-can-edit facility.</p>
<p>These two things then tie up with a third, the sheer number of &#8220;reporters&#8221;. MSM is restricted in this respect, in comparison with the number of people who may edit a wiki.</p>
<p>All wiki-like communal efforts need their 1000lb gorillas, their core, their moderators, the super-editors as it were. </p>
<p>But the wikinews model is just more likely to scale: more reporters, faster collection, faster correction, quicker dissemination.</p>
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		<title>By: John Dodds</title>
		<link>http://confusedofcalcutta.com/2008/09/12/more-musing-about-news-wikinews/comment-page-1/#comment-419824</link>
		<dc:creator>John Dodds</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 13 Sep 2008 18:13:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://confusedofcalcutta.com/?p=1325#comment-419824</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m not sure of the value of news without opinion. MSM reports basic facts but also adds the reasons for various actions and I would count that as opinion - although distinct from ideological-based opinion.

If you limit the function to the dissemination of facts, then a wiki might be marginally quicker than MSM as we have seen via Twitter and blogs in relation to major incidents - (though that has speeded up with the advent of 24 hour news and online outlets) . But ultimately are they more accurate? Initial reports in whatever medium always tend to be inaccurate and  away from the &quot;disciplines&quot; of MSM I think they do tend to be more  alarmist/hyperbole. How would your wiki idea avoid that?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m not sure of the value of news without opinion. MSM reports basic facts but also adds the reasons for various actions and I would count that as opinion &#8211; although distinct from ideological-based opinion.</p>
<p>If you limit the function to the dissemination of facts, then a wiki might be marginally quicker than MSM as we have seen via Twitter and blogs in relation to major incidents &#8211; (though that has speeded up with the advent of 24 hour news and online outlets) . But ultimately are they more accurate? Initial reports in whatever medium always tend to be inaccurate and  away from the &#8220;disciplines&#8221; of MSM I think they do tend to be more  alarmist/hyperbole. How would your wiki idea avoid that?</p>
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		<title>By: JP</title>
		<link>http://confusedofcalcutta.com/2008/09/12/more-musing-about-news-wikinews/comment-page-1/#comment-419764</link>
		<dc:creator>JP</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 13 Sep 2008 14:02:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://confusedofcalcutta.com/?p=1325#comment-419764</guid>
		<description>Bev, I agree with you in principle. I didn&#039;t go down that route because my starting point is different....I think of news as distinct and separate from opinion.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Bev, I agree with you in principle. I didn&#8217;t go down that route because my starting point is different&#8230;.I think of news as distinct and separate from opinion.</p>
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		<title>By: JP</title>
		<link>http://confusedofcalcutta.com/2008/09/12/more-musing-about-news-wikinews/comment-page-1/#comment-419763</link>
		<dc:creator>JP</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 13 Sep 2008 14:00:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://confusedofcalcutta.com/?p=1325#comment-419763</guid>
		<description>Alanna, good to see you back here. What I was imagining was something the *speed* of Twitter, with the *anyone-can-edit* capability of wikis, tagged and categorised and laid out topically.

MSM is about a specific collection of processes, technologies and values that militate against the speed and the anyone-can-edit capacity.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Alanna, good to see you back here. What I was imagining was something the *speed* of Twitter, with the *anyone-can-edit* capability of wikis, tagged and categorised and laid out topically.</p>
<p>MSM is about a specific collection of processes, technologies and values that militate against the speed and the anyone-can-edit capacity.</p>
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		<title>By: Bev D</title>
		<link>http://confusedofcalcutta.com/2008/09/12/more-musing-about-news-wikinews/comment-page-1/#comment-419526</link>
		<dc:creator>Bev D</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 12 Sep 2008 18:24:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://confusedofcalcutta.com/?p=1325#comment-419526</guid>
		<description>The news that is factual and not based on opinions and emotions probably has some way of succeeding in this wiki like enterprise. Things like natural catastrophes, obituaries, announcements and such can find a place in such a media with people just editing and adding to the stories. 

The space that I see a lot of problems coming in are where nationalist, religious or political - where peoples emotions make something news. Take for instance the Irish problem - what to England is true maynot be so for the Irish and vice-versa. A wiki would only allow people to keep deleting and distorting with no end in sight.

Interesting thoughts though. Might be interesting to observe if someone does build upon this.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The news that is factual and not based on opinions and emotions probably has some way of succeeding in this wiki like enterprise. Things like natural catastrophes, obituaries, announcements and such can find a place in such a media with people just editing and adding to the stories. </p>
<p>The space that I see a lot of problems coming in are where nationalist, religious or political &#8211; where peoples emotions make something news. Take for instance the Irish problem &#8211; what to England is true maynot be so for the Irish and vice-versa. A wiki would only allow people to keep deleting and distorting with no end in sight.</p>
<p>Interesting thoughts though. Might be interesting to observe if someone does build upon this.</p>
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		<title>By: Alanna</title>
		<link>http://confusedofcalcutta.com/2008/09/12/more-musing-about-news-wikinews/comment-page-1/#comment-419497</link>
		<dc:creator>Alanna</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 12 Sep 2008 16:02:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://confusedofcalcutta.com/?p=1325#comment-419497</guid>
		<description>It seems to me that we still get most of our real reporting from the MSM, and blogs provide commentary, analysis, and factchecking. How does wikinews fit into that?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It seems to me that we still get most of our real reporting from the MSM, and blogs provide commentary, analysis, and factchecking. How does wikinews fit into that?</p>
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