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	<title>Comments on: musing about education and learning useful things</title>
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	<link>http://confusedofcalcutta.com/2008/12/20/musing-about-education-and-learning-useful-things/</link>
	<description>a blog about information</description>
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		<title>By: JP</title>
		<link>http://confusedofcalcutta.com/2008/12/20/musing-about-education-and-learning-useful-things/comment-page-1/#comment-455679</link>
		<dc:creator>JP</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 23 Dec 2008 22:04:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://confusedofcalcutta.com/?p=1477#comment-455679</guid>
		<description>Nice one, Benoit. Good to see you here. have a great christmas and new year</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Nice one, Benoit. Good to see you here. have a great christmas and new year</p>
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		<title>By: Benoît Tuerlinckx</title>
		<link>http://confusedofcalcutta.com/2008/12/20/musing-about-education-and-learning-useful-things/comment-page-1/#comment-455622</link>
		<dc:creator>Benoît Tuerlinckx</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 23 Dec 2008 20:20:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://confusedofcalcutta.com/?p=1477#comment-455622</guid>
		<description>I would tend to collapse the list into something in the lines of: 
education is about [learning?] the desire to grow [in all dimensions] -- we can grow all the time and we grow in multiple dimensions [skills, competencies, personal and collective knowledge, relationships...] and this is triggered by desire, and the best teachers teach us that desire!

Education is cultivating relationships [mother and child, teacher and pupil, coach and team]

And finally, the most useful thing to know is probably language, I mean the subtleties of a language and its literature because it leads you to all the questions that will make you learn more. 

This was my twopence for Christmas!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I would tend to collapse the list into something in the lines of:<br />
education is about [learning?] the desire to grow [in all dimensions] &#8212; we can grow all the time and we grow in multiple dimensions [skills, competencies, personal and collective knowledge, relationships...] and this is triggered by desire, and the best teachers teach us that desire!</p>
<p>Education is cultivating relationships [mother and child, teacher and pupil, coach and team]</p>
<p>And finally, the most useful thing to know is probably language, I mean the subtleties of a language and its literature because it leads you to all the questions that will make you learn more. </p>
<p>This was my twopence for Christmas!</p>
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		<title>By: DE</title>
		<link>http://confusedofcalcutta.com/2008/12/20/musing-about-education-and-learning-useful-things/comment-page-1/#comment-455027</link>
		<dc:creator>DE</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 23 Dec 2008 00:53:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://confusedofcalcutta.com/?p=1477#comment-455027</guid>
		<description>Sure. Rote learning was certainly abused as a lazy method to get average teachers to push learning onto large classes. Indeed, the taste of discipline mattered more to some.

But baby / bath water. 

At school, I ignored hand writing skills and spelling and just focused on the meaning of words. And in an age of  word processing, I got lucky.  

But you only need to see the number or adults that can&#039;t construct a percentage to realise that short cuts don&#039;t always pay off.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sure. Rote learning was certainly abused as a lazy method to get average teachers to push learning onto large classes. Indeed, the taste of discipline mattered more to some.</p>
<p>But baby / bath water. </p>
<p>At school, I ignored hand writing skills and spelling and just focused on the meaning of words. And in an age of  word processing, I got lucky.  </p>
<p>But you only need to see the number or adults that can&#8217;t construct a percentage to realise that short cuts don&#8217;t always pay off.</p>
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		<title>By: JP</title>
		<link>http://confusedofcalcutta.com/2008/12/20/musing-about-education-and-learning-useful-things/comment-page-1/#comment-454998</link>
		<dc:creator>JP</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 23 Dec 2008 00:05:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://confusedofcalcutta.com/?p=1477#comment-454998</guid>
		<description>DE, I think the key thing is to learn *how* to learn by rote. In my generation we had times tables and poetry and some prose. Some of us were mad enough to try and memorise the periodic table so that we only had to learn industrial processes.

I wouldn&#039;t have taken kindly to memorising sin cos tan tables or log tables.

If you take the periodic table example, my incentive to learn it by rote was simple: i then didn&#039;t have to learn a whole bunch of equations.

Learning by rote is a good thing to learn, but children learn better when the incentives are right. Too often learning by rote was forced on kids, &quot;because I tell you to&quot;.

And the output of learning by rote should be understanding, even if it takes time. Not vomiting to paper.

Agree?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>DE, I think the key thing is to learn *how* to learn by rote. In my generation we had times tables and poetry and some prose. Some of us were mad enough to try and memorise the periodic table so that we only had to learn industrial processes.</p>
<p>I wouldn&#8217;t have taken kindly to memorising sin cos tan tables or log tables.</p>
<p>If you take the periodic table example, my incentive to learn it by rote was simple: i then didn&#8217;t have to learn a whole bunch of equations.</p>
<p>Learning by rote is a good thing to learn, but children learn better when the incentives are right. Too often learning by rote was forced on kids, &#8220;because I tell you to&#8221;.</p>
<p>And the output of learning by rote should be understanding, even if it takes time. Not vomiting to paper.</p>
<p>Agree?</p>
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		<title>By: DE</title>
		<link>http://confusedofcalcutta.com/2008/12/20/musing-about-education-and-learning-useful-things/comment-page-1/#comment-454864</link>
		<dc:creator>DE</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 22 Dec 2008 19:36:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://confusedofcalcutta.com/?p=1477#comment-454864</guid>
		<description>It sounds as if you used the Greek &quot;Topos&quot; method, which uses imagined objects in a house to create a connection (and from where we get the word &#039;topic&#039;)

I think I learned to read like this, whch is why my spelling is so bad!

The rote learning method - if you call it that  - is a good way of absorbing information that may not be easy to &quot;understand&quot;. Like grammer, handwriting etc. Wash, rinse, repeat.

And I can&#039;t help thinking that those who are quick to understand are not really the urgent targets of early education.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It sounds as if you used the Greek &#8220;Topos&#8221; method, which uses imagined objects in a house to create a connection (and from where we get the word &#8216;topic&#8217;)</p>
<p>I think I learned to read like this, whch is why my spelling is so bad!</p>
<p>The rote learning method &#8211; if you call it that  &#8211; is a good way of absorbing information that may not be easy to &#8220;understand&#8221;. Like grammer, handwriting etc. Wash, rinse, repeat.</p>
<p>And I can&#8217;t help thinking that those who are quick to understand are not really the urgent targets of early education.</p>
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		<title>By: Saumitri</title>
		<link>http://confusedofcalcutta.com/2008/12/20/musing-about-education-and-learning-useful-things/comment-page-1/#comment-454672</link>
		<dc:creator>Saumitri</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 22 Dec 2008 06:38:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://confusedofcalcutta.com/?p=1477#comment-454672</guid>
		<description>DE,

IMHO, rote learning may not be all that &quot;rote&quot; afterall.

I was never good at rote learning, frankly, and when I tried, I failed miserably. But what I could remember with one hour of &quot;understanding&quot; took some of my classmates 3 to 4 hours of rote learning.

This lead my mom to keep reminding me during my school days, that I should spend one hour of concentrated understanding rather than 4 hours of rote learning.

My way of reading, which I still pursue today, was more akin to forming connections, almost like a story-line with whatever else existed in my brain and this process was fail-safe for me. Even today, I do end up connecting every bit of information I read up to my central understanding of the world.

Even, for multiplication tables, I remember as a kid, trying to conjure up some imaginary story of numbers, a method I later came to understand does form the basics of &quot;mnemonics&quot;.

I do wish as a kid, I had a &quot;guide&quot; to open up the secrets of learning without rote learning, which I happened to practise out of instinct, but over a long time and some painful agonizing that I can&#039;t learn by rote. I do wish that my teachers didn&#039;t stress too much on rote learning, without exploring other mechanisms that come from understanding.

I am sure each kid, when learning by &quot;rote&quot; uses one or the other mechanism which involves atleast partial understanding, though they might not be aware of the same.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>DE,</p>
<p>IMHO, rote learning may not be all that &#8220;rote&#8221; afterall.</p>
<p>I was never good at rote learning, frankly, and when I tried, I failed miserably. But what I could remember with one hour of &#8220;understanding&#8221; took some of my classmates 3 to 4 hours of rote learning.</p>
<p>This lead my mom to keep reminding me during my school days, that I should spend one hour of concentrated understanding rather than 4 hours of rote learning.</p>
<p>My way of reading, which I still pursue today, was more akin to forming connections, almost like a story-line with whatever else existed in my brain and this process was fail-safe for me. Even today, I do end up connecting every bit of information I read up to my central understanding of the world.</p>
<p>Even, for multiplication tables, I remember as a kid, trying to conjure up some imaginary story of numbers, a method I later came to understand does form the basics of &#8220;mnemonics&#8221;.</p>
<p>I do wish as a kid, I had a &#8220;guide&#8221; to open up the secrets of learning without rote learning, which I happened to practise out of instinct, but over a long time and some painful agonizing that I can&#8217;t learn by rote. I do wish that my teachers didn&#8217;t stress too much on rote learning, without exploring other mechanisms that come from understanding.</p>
<p>I am sure each kid, when learning by &#8220;rote&#8221; uses one or the other mechanism which involves atleast partial understanding, though they might not be aware of the same.</p>
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		<title>By: DE</title>
		<link>http://confusedofcalcutta.com/2008/12/20/musing-about-education-and-learning-useful-things/comment-page-1/#comment-454356</link>
		<dc:creator>DE</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 21 Dec 2008 12:15:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://confusedofcalcutta.com/?p=1477#comment-454356</guid>
		<description>Yes, but.

If you don&#039;t force in some rote learning early on, it becomes far harder to get it in later - even if the resistance is lower.

I mean multiplication tables, basic grammer, etc. As I suspect no one here would disagree I guess the argument becomes where the boundary sits. 

And of course a good teacher (the only really important bit in education) can make anything intertesting.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yes, but.</p>
<p>If you don&#8217;t force in some rote learning early on, it becomes far harder to get it in later &#8211; even if the resistance is lower.</p>
<p>I mean multiplication tables, basic grammer, etc. As I suspect no one here would disagree I guess the argument becomes where the boundary sits. </p>
<p>And of course a good teacher (the only really important bit in education) can make anything intertesting.</p>
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		<title>By: JP</title>
		<link>http://confusedofcalcutta.com/2008/12/20/musing-about-education-and-learning-useful-things/comment-page-1/#comment-454023</link>
		<dc:creator>JP</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 20 Dec 2008 21:07:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://confusedofcalcutta.com/?p=1477#comment-454023</guid>
		<description>Aha :-) now I understand.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Aha :-) now I understand.</p>
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		<title>By: John Dodds</title>
		<link>http://confusedofcalcutta.com/2008/12/20/musing-about-education-and-learning-useful-things/comment-page-1/#comment-454021</link>
		<dc:creator>John Dodds</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 20 Dec 2008 20:58:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://confusedofcalcutta.com/?p=1477#comment-454021</guid>
		<description>I was agreeing with you.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I was agreeing with you.</p>
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		<title>By: JP</title>
		<link>http://confusedofcalcutta.com/2008/12/20/musing-about-education-and-learning-useful-things/comment-page-1/#comment-454014</link>
		<dc:creator>JP</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 20 Dec 2008 20:51:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://confusedofcalcutta.com/?p=1477#comment-454014</guid>
		<description>Agree, John.  Guess I thought I&#039;d expressed some of that, perhaps not well enough.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Agree, John.  Guess I thought I&#8217;d expressed some of that, perhaps not well enough.</p>
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